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BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Papers

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Shirley
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Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:03 pm

BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Papers

Post by Shirley » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:50 pm

Hello Gary

I continue to research my G2 Grandparents William and Sarah Norn and their ties to the Red River Settlement. William was b July 6, 1825. His HBC bio indicates his parish to have been South Ronaldshay, Orkney and that he entered service with HBC December 6, 1848. William married Sarah Whitford (b August 7, 1834 to James Whitford and Mary Spence) on November 5, 1850. (Again, I thank you Gary for the excellent history of James and Mary Spence at your site.) William died November 30, 1902 at Pakan, North West Territories. I finally found Sarah's death date of May 30, 1907 on one of their sons’ probate files. The Charles Denney Papers of William, Sarah and their 13 children is numbered 608.000.

My query relates to the Charles Denney notes on the Norn file #608.000. Mr. Denney indicates William Norn of the Orkney Isles married Catherine Birston (Denny file #299.000) of the Red River Colony, by banns, on December 3, 1829 (S.J.). William's details are: 1800/03 - 24 Sept 1844 - buried at St. John's, age 44. There is a note stating that on the 1831 Red River Census, William is age 28, birthplace is Orkneys, religion is Protestant. There is a faint note in the outer column “assumed correct”. My G2 Grandfather William Norn was born 1825 and to my knowledge did not come to Canada until 1848. The rest of the details of #608.000 relate to my G2 Grandparents William, Sarah and their 13 children.

According to the Denney papers #299.000 Catherine's parents were Magnus Birston (brother to Alexander – Denney file 346.00) and Nancy. I read the bio of Alexander Birston on your site. Catherine was baptised July 30, 1824. Notes indicate Catherine married William Norn 3 December 1829 at S.J. The next page indicates a daughter Catherine Norne was bapt. July 8, 1830 S.J. What happened to the Catherines?

The page titled Family of Catherine Birston and William Norne – 299.001 - lists a John Norne with dates of 1792 – 15/3/1879 of Parks Creek (?) buried St. Andrews age 87. There is a note: “likely brother of William”. I have not been able to find details about this man.

Some believe/document that Catherine Birston was the first wife of my G2 Grandfather William Norn - because her name appears on the Norn file 608.00. I do not agree. G2 Grandfather William Norn’s Alberta death registration indicates that he was 78 at the time of his death - November 30, 1902 – making him born 1824/25.

I am wondering Gary, if your records of the Magnus Birston family have details regarding Catherine and her marriage to William Norn. Was Catherine’s William Norn related to my G2 Grandfather William Norn? I have not yet found the parents of my G2 Grandfather in the Orkneys.

Thank you for any advice you can offer.

Shirley

gnstill
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Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by gnstill » Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:07 pm

Thanks very much for the donation Shirley; very much appreciated!

It will take me a while to review all my files. Perhaps will take a day or so. Perhaps I'll do a Family Page for William Norn.

Shirley
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:03 pm

Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by Shirley » Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:49 am

You are very welcome. I appreciate your site! I look forward reading your notes!

gnstill
Site Admin
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by gnstill » Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:24 pm

I have just posted a page for your great-great grandparents. Here's the link: WILLIAM NORN (1825-1902)

Now that I have my mind refreshed about that family, I will be able to tackle the Catherine BIRSTON question. I think that will be best answered if I post a page for Magnus BIRSTON (1768-1837) who seems to have been the father of Catherine born around 1806. I also have problems with some of the information about that family. I'll post what I have in the next day or so and we will be able to examine the whole issue better.

Shirley
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:03 pm

Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by Shirley » Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:46 pm

Thank you! I am off to read your pages re: William and Sarah. I am looking forward to your opinion regarding the William Norns. It would be wonderful to solve the confusion.
Shirley

Shirley
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:03 pm

Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by Shirley » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:48 pm

Hello

Thank you for the great notes regarding William and Sarah!

The 1891 census of William and Sarah at Lac la Biche lists grandchildren Donald and Harriet. They are children of William and Sarah's daughter Margaret and and her husband Peter BAHAN. The original doc is very faint, poorly written and difficult to read - transcribed incorrectly as Cohan.

Shirley

gnstill
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Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by gnstill » Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:07 am

Thanks very much for pointing that out Shirley. I have also moved your comments to the NORN Forum Topic at this link: FORUM for DISCUSSING SARAH & WILLIAM NORN

Sorry, but I am constantly trying keep discussions organized under the appropriate topics.

gnstill
Site Admin
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Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by gnstill » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:50 pm

I am happy to announce that I have begun construction of a Family Page for Magnus BIRSTON; Link: ** MAGNUS BIRSTON (c1768-1837)

I will also reroute some of your queries to the Forum Topic of the same name. Again, I am trying to keep my Topic discussions organized. Please post further comments about that particular family there. Sorry for fussing.

gnstill
Site Admin
Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by gnstill » Thu Jul 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Shirley: I have just completed another review of the Magnus BIRSTON Family and have updated that page accordingly.

Although they were both born in the Orkneys, my investigations failed to find any close family connections between your William NORN and the William NORN who married Catherine BIRSTON.

Shirley
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:03 pm

Re: BIRSTON, Magnus and Catherine; William Norn; Denney Pape

Post by Shirley » Sun Jul 22, 2012 8:33 am

Thanks Gary! I could not see a connection either.
Shirley

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