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JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

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gnstill
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JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by gnstill » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:06 am

New Family Page: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Please post comments and queries about James SUTHERLAND and his family here.

bthor
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Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by bthor » Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:15 pm

Hi Gary
I knew after reading this page, I needed to visit the HBC archives again. A couple of years ago, when I first started building our family tree I noticed a lot of people connecting Jane Flett wife of James Sutherland, as a daughter of William Flett (1762-1823) and Saskatchewan, and others connecting Mary (Southward Indian) Halcrow, wife of Thomas Halcrow as a daughter of James Sutherland and Jane Flett. When I made all these connection the results is Peter Flett married his sister’s Granddaughter. I knew something was very wrong.

--------------------------------Anne Flett
-----------Peter Flett---------------&-----------------Euphemia Halcrow
William Flett & Saskatchewan----------------Thomas Halcrow & Mary Southward Indian Halcrow

Thank-you, Gary, for your analysis of Jane Flett’s Parentage, I totally concur. Now for the parentage of Mary, I am sure if Mary was the daughter of James and Jane Sutherland, Rev John West would have recorded it when he baptized her, but he didn’t and she isn’t. Rev John West did however show her a lot more respect than he did William Flett’s wife Saskatchewan. He wrote “Mary Halcrow A Southward Indian Woman, the Wife of Thomas Halcrow” instead of just “native”. (I can send you the image if you like.)
Now if you read the letter of Aug 8, 1831 from James Sutherland, it will make sense. His first daughter Sally and her husband Roderick McKenzie both died before 1830 leaving four daughters orphaned; Annabella, Margaret, JESSIE and Jemima. Now the problem is who is the second daughter that married in the summer of 1826? Did Nancy start a relationship with Robert Clouston before the official marriage or are we missing someone? Hmm… I am sorry, I forgot to check out the Sutherland baptisms.
James and Jane Sutherland are a very important part of Peter and Euphemia (Halcrow)Flett’s family. Not only did their daughter Isabella Flora Flett (1856-1932) marry the Sutherland’s grandson Roderick Kenneth Sutherland (1842-1909) but their granddaughter Mary Margaret Ackroyd (1873-1924) married another one of their grandsons Alfred William Sutherland (1864-1917).
Beth Balsillie

gnstill
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Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by gnstill » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:10 am

Hi Beth: I don’t know if you’ve seen my New Page for Thomas HALCROW, so to keep things organized, I will move this posting the Forum Topic created for that family as well.
I always prefer to deal with one family at a time to avoid confusion and will reply there when I get a chance.
Here’s the link: NEW FAMILY PAGE for THOMAS HALCROW

Also note that I have completely revised and updated the Pages for both William FLETT b-1762 and William FLETT b-1786

bthor
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Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by bthor » Sat Aug 06, 2016 12:01 am

Gary,
This statement needs to be corrected:
No marriages or children are indicated for the above men in HBCA. That leaves us with William FLETT (1762-1823) who married Jane COOK. Her married name of course would have been Jane FLETT.
** MORE ABOUT WILLIAM FLETT (1762-1823)
William Flett (1762-1823) was married to Saskatchewan.

Please re-edit this page. Who is daughter Mary? Delete the comments and leave the rest for others to figure out.
Your Freind,
Beth

gnstill
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Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by gnstill » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:11 am

Thanks Beth. I have removed all of my comments about who were the parents of Jane FLETT.
You say re-edit this page. Who is daughter Mary? Delete comments etc. I don’t understand the ‘who is Mary?’ part. Where is that?

JeremyWhite
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by JeremyWhite » Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:38 am

Hi there! Jeremy White here. My wife's family is descended from Roderick Sutherland (b. 1821) and Mary Emily Lowman. In fact, my wife's grandfather was christened Roderick Sutherland Vidal-Hall, after his great-grandfather.

It's quite the story. When Roderick and Mary Sutherland went out west to colonize Oregon, they left their eldest daughter Alice with Mary's mother (Mary Lowman Bird - nee Kelly) in Manitoba. Mary Bird eventually took her granddaughter back to England which is how she wound up English while her parents and siblings remained out in Oregon.

Thank you for the great work you've done on this family!

A few questions, if you happen to able to look them up:

1 - I've seen Roderick Sutherland (b.1821) listed as "Roderick McKenzie Sutherland" -- but I'm somewhat, concerned that may a confusion with his brother-in-law, Roderick McKenzie, Jr. Unless Roderick was named after Roderick McKenzie, Sr. ? Do you have Roderick's middle name as McKenzie?

2 - You have a birth year for G.J. Lowman of 1797. This excites me, as I have almost no information on G.J. Lowman. Do you happen to have any additional information or leads about the Lowman family?

3 - What's your current theory as to Jane Flett's parents? It does seem strange that an "Indian woman" would have a Scottish last name.

Cheers,

Jeremy White
jeremywh@hotmail.com

gnstill
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Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by gnstill » Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:30 pm

Welcome to our Forum Jeremy!

1. I do not have Roderick with a middle name McKenzie.

2. I do have a Mary (nee KELLY) LOWMAN (1801-1873) at this link:
JAMES CURTIS BIRD (1773-1856)

3. Regarding Jane FLETT: Her parents are uncertain to me at this time. In that regard, see the previous postings from bthor (above). Hopefully Beth (bthor) will see this and have comments in that regard.
I have seen her referred to as a daughter of William FLETT at the following link, but that seems to be just speculation at this point. WILLIAM FLETT (1762-1823)
Regards, Gary Still

JeremyWhite
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by JeremyWhite » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:28 am

I had a day in Portland, Oregon, yesterday, and I was able to go through the Sutherland Family Papers at the Oregon Historical Society.

A summary:
http://archiveswest.orbiscascade.org/ar ... Sutherland

Wonderful treasures there, including Roderick Sutherland's diary from while he was on the Oregon Trail going out west in 1855.

Also letters from Alice Mary Sutherland (later Masters), from both the Red River Settlement, and later from Sheerness, England, out to her parents and siblings out in Oregon. As far as I can tell, she never saw them again after they headed west in 1854, when she was 6 years old, and left with her grandparents in Red River. (We don't know why.) At the age of 13, she accompanied her English Grandmother, Mary Kelly Lowman Bird, back to England, where Alice eventually married Herbert Masters. (Alice was my wife's great-great-grandmother.)

gnstill
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Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by gnstill » Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:44 pm

It would be helpful to know more about your wife – at least what was her maiden name or surname?

JeremyWhite
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:10 pm

Re: JAMES SUTHERLAND (1777-1844)

Post by JeremyWhite » Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:10 pm

My wife's line is:
Fiona Vidal-Hall
Roderick Mark Vidal-Hall
Roderick Sutherland Vidal-Hall
Edith Emily Masters
Alice Mary Sutherland
Roderick McKenzie Sutherland
James Sutherland

As you can see, the Roderick name was passed down the family to my father-in-law. I've been curious about Roderick McKenzie Sutherland -- it almost feels as if he was named after his much older brother-in-law, Roderick McKenzie. For a while I thought it might be in memory of him. But Roderick Sutherland was born in 1821, and Roderick McKenzie didn't die until January, 1830.

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