Red River Ancestry

Hi everyone I’m a descendent of Philip Turnor then Joseph Sr then Joesph Jr Joseph jr son Philip Turner my great Grandpa was John Turner and my grandpa was Lawrence Turner

I have the book across the river and Also have a huge family tree that goes from first generation all the way to the ninety it’s a huge family tree

Hello Jamie,
If you are interested in any more information about Philip Turnor, I have just published a biography: MAPMAKER: PHILIP TURNOR IN RUPERT'S LAND IN THE AGE OF ENLIGHTENMENT. It was published by the University of Regina Press and is available in book stores and online.

My lineage is through Charlotte Turner, daughter of Joseph Turner Sr.

Barbara Mitchell

i have a big family tree and the book across the river you cant get a copy of them anymore they quit making them

Hello Barbara, and others following this discussion,

Firstly, Barbara, thank you for writing and sharing your great biography. Philip Turnor does not receive the recognition he deserves.

My connection is through Mary Morrison (Turner), the sister of Charlotte and also a daughter of Joseph Turner and "Emma". Mary was the mother of my Great Grandmother, Elizabeth Sophie Parry (Morrison). I have recently received the results of mitochrondrial DNA (mtDNA) sampling. If I understand the science, I am able to trace my mtDNA to the wife of Joseph Turner, referred to as "Emma" but not to the wife of Philip Turnor, referred to by some as Elizabeth (White Bear), possibly from Cumberland House. It would take a daughter of Philip Turnor and "Elizabeth" to move to that level. It is often reported that Philip had at least one daughter with "Elizabeth". My mtDNA results (Haplogroup), although evolving, suggests that "Emma" was indigenous to the western portion of Canada, suggesting that Joseph found his bride west of Ontario, in what is now Manitoba or Saskatchewan.

Barbara, I know you have rightfully focused on your direct ancestry, but I am interested in your thoughts about Philip having more (numerous) children with "Elizabeth", including one after his marriage to Elizabeth Hallett and return to Canada.

Hello 'Horsefly',

I am glad you have had a chance to read my biography. It is interesting that you have tried the DNA testing. I have not yet done that as I've heard it is not reliable although it seems to be in your case.
I have not seen mentioned any other children than Joseph and there seems to be a confusion regarding Elizabeth. Elizabeth is the name of Turnor's English wife. You will see in my biography that Philip and Elizabeth Hallett were married in June 1788 in Battersea. As far as I could see, from checking births for 5 years from that date of 1788, they did not have children together. We do not know the name of Turnor's Cree wife with whom he fathered Joseph. There is also no mention of his taking a different wife when he returned to Rupert's Land in 1789. Although there is mention of Malchom Ross and his wife accompanying him on the northward journey, there is no mention of Turnor having a wife at that time.
So, I have no knowledge of any other children than Joseph. In fact, some one from Australia a few years ago was trying to discover whether White Bear was involved with Philip Turnor and she came to the conclusion that there was no relationship.

Oh dna, one of my favourite topics!

I wrote a blog post about the accuracy of DNA tests. I don’t know if this forum will let me post the link but: https://maltsoda.wordpress.com/2018/04/ ... -accurate/
(Tl;dr: Ethnicity -whatever that means- is not as “accurate” as family finding)

I have also connected with other cousins whose only shared ancestor as far as I know is Joseph Turner (first thing I ask them is if they’ve read your book, Barbara). However, I would not expect all descendants of Joseph Turner to share DNA as once you get past fifth cousins the odds of sharing DNA is around 10%.

So neat that you’ve done an mtdna test, Horsefly -tracing your mother’s mother’s mother’s (etc) DNA. I was thinking of getting one for my great aunt -her maternal line can trace to Elizabeth Penanchequay, the wife of William Bolland. Their daughter marrried Philip Turner, son of Joseph Turner. Cousin matching at this level is an impossibility, since the shared DNA can go back thousands of years (which is why an autosomal test such that Ancestry offers is better for cousin matching) but I read another blog that talked about unique haplogroups and I was wondering if hers would be. I would also love to see a y-DNA test for a son of a son of a son (etc) of Philip Turnor (if anyone fits that criteria and wants to do one, let me know and I will send you one!).

I read the blog with interest. Thanks, Barbara

Well, well, well....This is so confusing lol I thought that I was making progress by determining how I am related to Philip and Joseph.
What my family knows is that Philip found himself an Ojibway wife (name unknown) and they had Joseph (born 1783).
Is the Ojibway connection correct?
Thank you