New Page: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
Please post comments and queries about our Ancient CONRAD ancestors in Germany here.
ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
The following is a recent posting from Scott Winston Teal:
Regarding the ancestry of Lorentz CONRAD found on this site.
It has been long believed that Lorentz CONRAD of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia was descended from Anna Maria VON LUDWIG, a witch.
This can now be proved false. The CONRADs are not descended from her and that info on this site should be modified.
VON LUDWIG died in 1646 and at 52 placing her birth in about 1594. She is listed in the records as the wife of Heinrich CONRAD (NOT Georg CONRAD as had previously been thought, and this has lead to the false belief). Pastor Wagner who viewed the original records states "that no ancestry for Georg can be proven". The marriage register lists "Georg CONRAD" as the father or Lorentz born 1616 and Burkhard born 1618. Wagner concluded they were brothers and their father was the same Georg. No wife or parents are listed for Georg. Georg, the father of Lorentz born in 1616 would have had to have been born at least prior to the year 1600 himself. If he born in 1600, thus 16 years old in 1616 fathering a son, it still places Anna Maria VON LUDWIG as a 6 year old girl when this Georg was born and that is a very conservative guess.
VON LUDWIG was Georg's contemporary. She was certainly not his mother. They were roughly the same age; if anything Georg may have actually been a little older as he was most likely born about 1591. (Age 25 in 1616)
It is therefore IMPOSSIBLE for Anna Maria VON LUDWIG to be Georg's mother and as such NOT the ancestor of Lorentz CONRAD the Foreign Protestant born in 1701.
- Scott W. Teal
Regarding the ancestry of Lorentz CONRAD found on this site.
It has been long believed that Lorentz CONRAD of Lunenburg, Nova Scotia was descended from Anna Maria VON LUDWIG, a witch.
This can now be proved false. The CONRADs are not descended from her and that info on this site should be modified.
VON LUDWIG died in 1646 and at 52 placing her birth in about 1594. She is listed in the records as the wife of Heinrich CONRAD (NOT Georg CONRAD as had previously been thought, and this has lead to the false belief). Pastor Wagner who viewed the original records states "that no ancestry for Georg can be proven". The marriage register lists "Georg CONRAD" as the father or Lorentz born 1616 and Burkhard born 1618. Wagner concluded they were brothers and their father was the same Georg. No wife or parents are listed for Georg. Georg, the father of Lorentz born in 1616 would have had to have been born at least prior to the year 1600 himself. If he born in 1600, thus 16 years old in 1616 fathering a son, it still places Anna Maria VON LUDWIG as a 6 year old girl when this Georg was born and that is a very conservative guess.
VON LUDWIG was Georg's contemporary. She was certainly not his mother. They were roughly the same age; if anything Georg may have actually been a little older as he was most likely born about 1591. (Age 25 in 1616)
It is therefore IMPOSSIBLE for Anna Maria VON LUDWIG to be Georg's mother and as such NOT the ancestor of Lorentz CONRAD the Foreign Protestant born in 1701.
- Scott W. Teal
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
It is definitely a pleasure to have you aboard Scott!
Your findings are very compelling; thanks very much. I have modified and updated the related page accordingly. Please post any further comments about any other CONRAD families who lived in Germany under this topic.
I look forward to any other comments you may have about the other families I have presented so far. To avoid confusion, I prefer to deal with one particular family/Topic at a time and have preset Topic titles accordingly.
Your findings are very compelling; thanks very much. I have modified and updated the related page accordingly. Please post any further comments about any other CONRAD families who lived in Germany under this topic.
I look forward to any other comments you may have about the other families I have presented so far. To avoid confusion, I prefer to deal with one particular family/Topic at a time and have preset Topic titles accordingly.
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
Here is an article I recently wrote to a Lunenburg, Nova Scotia research group. It is regarding the European origins of the Conrad family. It is long, but a worthy read in my opinion if you are researching this family.
July, 2012
To anyone interested in and regarding The European Origins of The Lunenburg Conrad Family:
Back in 1988 I wrote and published a 466 page comprehensive genealogy on the Conrad family titled “Matthias And Jacob”.
Browsing the Internet today there are numerous websites displaying the European origins of the Lunenburg Conrad family containing folklore and genealogies of them. But what is the source of this information and how much of it is accurate?
It is my hope in writing this article to pry fact from fable.
When I started to research the Conrad genealogy in early 1978 the European ancestry of Lorentz Conrad (1701) was unknown; to those in North America at least. Lorentz’s perceived birth date was 1705, deriving from his reported age of 46 on the manifest of the Murdoch. At the time the genealogical landscape was a clean slate upon which nothing had yet been written. It is a very different muddied puddle of water now.
And so It is necessary to know from where this “widely accepted” information originated.
For that we go back to 1982.
It is Borden Conrad who is to be credited as being the first person to bring the European genealogical data of the Conrad’s back to Nova Scotia.
In 1982 he went to Kleinheubach, met with the pastor of the Lutheran church and was shown records written in 1928 by one Pastor Wagner about the Conrad family. I am unsure whether Mr. Conrad saw the actual original records or not but I don’t think so as these had been transferred out prior to 1982 is my understanding. Pastor Wagner apparently examined the old records of the church and made sheets of each family piecing together their genealogies.
In the aftermath of 1982 I had assumed as had others at the time with whom I collaborated that the unbroken line of ancestry of the Foreign Protestant Lorentz Conrad went like this: Lorentz Conrad was the son of Burkhardt, son of Burkhardt son of Johann Georg son of Hans Heinrich who was the son of Matthias Conrad - the earliest known ancestor.
I no longer believe this to be true.
Upon Borden Conrad’s return to Nova Scotia he was interviewed by a newspaper and the interesting story of his visit appeared in a newspaper article.
6 years later I published a Conrad genealogy which included the European genealogy that was just starting to circulate by that point.
Not all, but most of what is now found online about Lorentz Conrad’s ancestry in Europe can be sourced back to these 3 places, Pastor Wagner’s 1928 charts, that 1982 newspaper article and my 1988 genealogy.
In 1989 my book is purchased by the LDS Family History Library and copied and entered into the Mormon records and made available to the world. In recent years Ancestry.com has also acquired and circulated the information.
If an error appeared anywhere along the way – that error was replicated and mass produced, meaning that just because something appears in many places does not make it correct. If the root source was false so is everything thereafter………..
The 1982 news article made several claims. Among other things, it claimed :
1. That Matthias Conrad arrived in Kleinheubach in 1563
2. That Matthias Conrad arrived in the village to rebuild a church that had been destroyed in 1455 during the 30 Year’s War.
3. That, and I’ll paraphrase here: “One member had been accused of witch craft, did not die, although records suggest it would have been better had she died”.
Wagner’s charts are the source of the 1563 date.
This doesn’t matter a great deal perhaps but it is important when trying to establish an age/DOB for Matthias Conrad.
Pastor Wagner composed “family genealogies” of various families of Kleinheubach. For the Conrads he composes 2 charts. Pastor Wagner’s charts are his interpretations of the original record. They are a 1928 document and not an original document. He writes his opinions and conclusions at the top of chart #1.
Wagner writes on Chart #1 that “he first sees the name Matthias Conrad in the original records in 1563” signalling his arrival in Kleinheubach. He goes on to say that he sees his name again in association with the “Heubacher Witch Trials”.
Wagner has assumed that the Matthias of 1563 and the Matthias of the Witch Trials are the same man. But are they? Is there one Matthias or two?
In 1629 there is reported the death of a “Maria the wife of Matthias Conrad” who is reputed to be born in 1569. If Matthias arrives in 1563 and his wife is born in 1569 this is odd as it makes him considerably older than his wife. But if the date was actually 1583 rather than 1563 (an 8 can sometimes be confused with a 6) it would suggest that Matthias would be about 65 around 1629 which is much more possible and makes him roughly the same age as “Mrs. Matthias Conrad”. Another possibility is that the 1563 date is correct and the Matthias of the witch trials is actually a son of the original Matthias for whom no other record exists. With the information available it is difficult to reach a positive conclusion. Thus it remains inconclusive.
And it does throw the widely accepted “belief” into question.
Regarding the second point the 1982 newspaper article is clearly in error: If Matthias arrived in 1563 how could he rebuild a church destroyed in a war that had not even happened yet? The 30 War’s War began in 1618. Moreover as far as I know the church was simply in a state of disrepair by 1455 and simply “dismantled”. It wasn’t destroyed in any war let alone the 30 Years’ War as the article suggested. This piece of folklore should be stricken from genealogies.
It is the 3rd issue though that is most concerning. Anna Maria (Von Ludwig) Conrad . She is the person accused of witchcraft and most of us list her as our direct ancestor and wife of Georg Conrad.
Wagner writes in German at the top of chart #1 that the husband of Anna Maria Von Ludwig was Hans Heinrich Conrad (NOT Georg) and that she was “accused” of witchcraft. Another original document that has survived supports this disproving the claim in my book that Von Ludwig was married to Johann Georg. This also should be changed in people’s genealogies as in 1988 I was in error on this point.
Now, being accused of witchcraft and actually being convicted and burned is not the same thing. (Although I admit one almost always lead to the other). There is a surviving record to the effect that Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria are striving to obtain her freedom.
It was the 1982 newspaper article that asserted that she was burned and this article seems to be the root of that belief that permeates today. But is it true? Was she really burned or did the writer of the article simply leap to that conclusion because she was accused?
Much has been made of this as a lot of folklore has built up around this greatly suffering ancestor of ours since 1982. The 30 Years’ War story was fabricated, she is accused in 1629, successfully gives birth in 1633 to Johann Daniel Conrad and dies in 1646. Skin is the body’s natural barrier to infections and people with bad burns are prone to infection. A sufferer of 3rd degree burns would surely develop infections and probably die from them in 1629 Germany which was by then in the midst of the war and enduring harsh conditions from which many healthy people died. Yet this woman lived another 17 years.
Considering all the literature, folklore and embellishment that has sprouted around this issue it begs the question: - How badly injured was she? The story of the witch appears to be a yarn that has blossomed with the telling.
Some original document giving a more detailed account of what transpired after she was accused one way or the other would certainly help clear the air.
The final issue though is of much greater significance:
Is Anna Maria Von Ludwig actually our ancestor or not? Consult almost any website citing her and it is a resounding YES.
In the years shortly after the 1988 publication of “Matthias And Jacob”, I received a copy of the “Wagner charts” and after examining them more critically began to have serious doubts about the accuracy of what I wrote in the book regarding Anna Maria Von Ludwig and her place in our genealogies.
Like any science sometimes a revision of thinking is necessary and this is one of those times. She has been assumed to be “our ancestor” because she was thought to be the wife of Georg. The Wagner charts clearly state she is the wife of Heinrich - NOT Georg.
Consider the evidence:
In 1928 Pastor Wagner drew 2 charts of the Conrad family..
Chart #1 lists 3 children for Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria Von Ludwig - #1 Anna Maria born 1627 and #2 Georg who dies in 1641 and #3 Burkhardt who dies in 1679.(This is not the same Burkhardt identified as the father or grandfather of Lorentz Conrad born 1701). He also lists a different Georg with just two children, Lorentz born in 1616 and Burkhard born in 1618. It is this Burkhard who appears at the top of Chart #2.
Chart #2 traces the Foreign Protestant Lorentz Conrad back to his grandfather Burkhardt Conrad who he states was born in 1618 and these 3 generations seem to be rather well documented. It is Burkhardt’s ancestry that is in question. Wagner states that Burkhardt’s father’s name was listed as Georg on his 1652 marriage and that another man Lorentz Conrad born in 1616 also listed his father as Georg at his 1641 marriage. Wagner concludes they are brothers and draws them on chart #1 as such.
While not 100% conclusive chances are this is a correct assumption. But the ancestry hits a brick wall here and stops with Georg. Georg Conrad then is the earliest traceable ancestor! Not Matthias. Georg's wife is not listed so it would appear that her name has been lost to history.
It had been falsely assumed by me and others in 1988 that Hans Heinrich was Georg’s father; that the Georg the father of Burkhardt and the Georg son of Hans Heinrich were the same Georg.
Hans Heinrich’s name deceptively appears above Georg on chart #1 (father of Lorentz & Burkhardt) giving the appearance that he was the father of Georg to anyone who gives the chart a casual glance.
However there is actually no link between Burkhard’s father Georg or any earlier ancestor. When translated from German to English Wagner himself confirms this, citing that no relationship between Hans Heinrich and Georg can be proven! I agree. This means there are 2 Georg Conrads – 3 if you count Burkhardt’s son Georg. So GEORG Conrad born probably during the late 1580's or early 1590's is the earliest known ancestor in an unbroken line that can be proven.
At her death in 1646 Anna Maria Von Ludwig Conrad the wife of Hans Heinrich was said to be 52 years of age placing her birth in about 1594.
The daughter of Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria Ludwig, named Anna Maria, was born in 1627. She later marries Burkhard Wein. (My book says she was the daughter of Georg – this is incorrect and the change should be noted in people’s genealogies.) One Johann Daniel Conrad born in 1633 is also said to be Heinrich’s son and modern day Germans can trace their ancestry back to Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria Von Ludwig through both Anna Maria the wife of Burkhardt Wein and Johann Daniel Conrad.
The only way then that it is possible for Lorentz Conrad born Nov 30, 1701 to be a direct descendant of Anna Maria Von Ludwig is if she were Burkhard Conrad’s (1618) paternal grandmother since we have established that she certainly was not his mother (Georg’s wife) – she was Heinrich’s wife.
If we concede that Lorentz (1616) & Burkhardt’s (1618) father Georg Conrad was a mere 16 years of age when Lorentz was born which is a very conservative estimate it places his birth in 1600 when Anna Maria Von Ludwig was just 6 years old. Conclusion? She could not have been the grandmother of Burkhardt Conrad (1618). It is biologically impossible.
There is simply not enough time – just 24 years between 1594 and 1618 for her to be his paternal grandmother. (22 years between Lorentz & Von Ludwig) As if that were not enough nails in the coffin on this issue let me add another - This would also suppose that she was having children over a span of 33 years between about 1600 as the most conservative estimate until 1633 when Johann Daniel is born - another improbability – with seemingly no children born between the years c. 1600 to 1627.
Thus we can convincingly declare that Anna Maria Von Ludwig IS NOT and cannot be the ancestor of the Lunenburg County Conrad’s. And all the members of the Von Ludwig family who were tried for witchcraft are not related whatsoever to us either. Anna Maria Von Ludwig was perhaps related by marriage but that cannot even be positively established.
Nevertheless if the evidence is critically examined the Lunenburg Conrads and their descendants of which I am one are not and cannot be the descendants of Anna Maria Von Ludwig. That distinction rests with the German branch of this family.
Scott W. Teal
July, 2012
To anyone interested in and regarding The European Origins of The Lunenburg Conrad Family:
Back in 1988 I wrote and published a 466 page comprehensive genealogy on the Conrad family titled “Matthias And Jacob”.
Browsing the Internet today there are numerous websites displaying the European origins of the Lunenburg Conrad family containing folklore and genealogies of them. But what is the source of this information and how much of it is accurate?
It is my hope in writing this article to pry fact from fable.
When I started to research the Conrad genealogy in early 1978 the European ancestry of Lorentz Conrad (1701) was unknown; to those in North America at least. Lorentz’s perceived birth date was 1705, deriving from his reported age of 46 on the manifest of the Murdoch. At the time the genealogical landscape was a clean slate upon which nothing had yet been written. It is a very different muddied puddle of water now.
And so It is necessary to know from where this “widely accepted” information originated.
For that we go back to 1982.
It is Borden Conrad who is to be credited as being the first person to bring the European genealogical data of the Conrad’s back to Nova Scotia.
In 1982 he went to Kleinheubach, met with the pastor of the Lutheran church and was shown records written in 1928 by one Pastor Wagner about the Conrad family. I am unsure whether Mr. Conrad saw the actual original records or not but I don’t think so as these had been transferred out prior to 1982 is my understanding. Pastor Wagner apparently examined the old records of the church and made sheets of each family piecing together their genealogies.
In the aftermath of 1982 I had assumed as had others at the time with whom I collaborated that the unbroken line of ancestry of the Foreign Protestant Lorentz Conrad went like this: Lorentz Conrad was the son of Burkhardt, son of Burkhardt son of Johann Georg son of Hans Heinrich who was the son of Matthias Conrad - the earliest known ancestor.
I no longer believe this to be true.
Upon Borden Conrad’s return to Nova Scotia he was interviewed by a newspaper and the interesting story of his visit appeared in a newspaper article.
6 years later I published a Conrad genealogy which included the European genealogy that was just starting to circulate by that point.
Not all, but most of what is now found online about Lorentz Conrad’s ancestry in Europe can be sourced back to these 3 places, Pastor Wagner’s 1928 charts, that 1982 newspaper article and my 1988 genealogy.
In 1989 my book is purchased by the LDS Family History Library and copied and entered into the Mormon records and made available to the world. In recent years Ancestry.com has also acquired and circulated the information.
If an error appeared anywhere along the way – that error was replicated and mass produced, meaning that just because something appears in many places does not make it correct. If the root source was false so is everything thereafter………..
The 1982 news article made several claims. Among other things, it claimed :
1. That Matthias Conrad arrived in Kleinheubach in 1563
2. That Matthias Conrad arrived in the village to rebuild a church that had been destroyed in 1455 during the 30 Year’s War.
3. That, and I’ll paraphrase here: “One member had been accused of witch craft, did not die, although records suggest it would have been better had she died”.
Wagner’s charts are the source of the 1563 date.
This doesn’t matter a great deal perhaps but it is important when trying to establish an age/DOB for Matthias Conrad.
Pastor Wagner composed “family genealogies” of various families of Kleinheubach. For the Conrads he composes 2 charts. Pastor Wagner’s charts are his interpretations of the original record. They are a 1928 document and not an original document. He writes his opinions and conclusions at the top of chart #1.
Wagner writes on Chart #1 that “he first sees the name Matthias Conrad in the original records in 1563” signalling his arrival in Kleinheubach. He goes on to say that he sees his name again in association with the “Heubacher Witch Trials”.
Wagner has assumed that the Matthias of 1563 and the Matthias of the Witch Trials are the same man. But are they? Is there one Matthias or two?
In 1629 there is reported the death of a “Maria the wife of Matthias Conrad” who is reputed to be born in 1569. If Matthias arrives in 1563 and his wife is born in 1569 this is odd as it makes him considerably older than his wife. But if the date was actually 1583 rather than 1563 (an 8 can sometimes be confused with a 6) it would suggest that Matthias would be about 65 around 1629 which is much more possible and makes him roughly the same age as “Mrs. Matthias Conrad”. Another possibility is that the 1563 date is correct and the Matthias of the witch trials is actually a son of the original Matthias for whom no other record exists. With the information available it is difficult to reach a positive conclusion. Thus it remains inconclusive.
And it does throw the widely accepted “belief” into question.
Regarding the second point the 1982 newspaper article is clearly in error: If Matthias arrived in 1563 how could he rebuild a church destroyed in a war that had not even happened yet? The 30 War’s War began in 1618. Moreover as far as I know the church was simply in a state of disrepair by 1455 and simply “dismantled”. It wasn’t destroyed in any war let alone the 30 Years’ War as the article suggested. This piece of folklore should be stricken from genealogies.
It is the 3rd issue though that is most concerning. Anna Maria (Von Ludwig) Conrad . She is the person accused of witchcraft and most of us list her as our direct ancestor and wife of Georg Conrad.
Wagner writes in German at the top of chart #1 that the husband of Anna Maria Von Ludwig was Hans Heinrich Conrad (NOT Georg) and that she was “accused” of witchcraft. Another original document that has survived supports this disproving the claim in my book that Von Ludwig was married to Johann Georg. This also should be changed in people’s genealogies as in 1988 I was in error on this point.
Now, being accused of witchcraft and actually being convicted and burned is not the same thing. (Although I admit one almost always lead to the other). There is a surviving record to the effect that Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria are striving to obtain her freedom.
It was the 1982 newspaper article that asserted that she was burned and this article seems to be the root of that belief that permeates today. But is it true? Was she really burned or did the writer of the article simply leap to that conclusion because she was accused?
Much has been made of this as a lot of folklore has built up around this greatly suffering ancestor of ours since 1982. The 30 Years’ War story was fabricated, she is accused in 1629, successfully gives birth in 1633 to Johann Daniel Conrad and dies in 1646. Skin is the body’s natural barrier to infections and people with bad burns are prone to infection. A sufferer of 3rd degree burns would surely develop infections and probably die from them in 1629 Germany which was by then in the midst of the war and enduring harsh conditions from which many healthy people died. Yet this woman lived another 17 years.
Considering all the literature, folklore and embellishment that has sprouted around this issue it begs the question: - How badly injured was she? The story of the witch appears to be a yarn that has blossomed with the telling.
Some original document giving a more detailed account of what transpired after she was accused one way or the other would certainly help clear the air.
The final issue though is of much greater significance:
Is Anna Maria Von Ludwig actually our ancestor or not? Consult almost any website citing her and it is a resounding YES.
In the years shortly after the 1988 publication of “Matthias And Jacob”, I received a copy of the “Wagner charts” and after examining them more critically began to have serious doubts about the accuracy of what I wrote in the book regarding Anna Maria Von Ludwig and her place in our genealogies.
Like any science sometimes a revision of thinking is necessary and this is one of those times. She has been assumed to be “our ancestor” because she was thought to be the wife of Georg. The Wagner charts clearly state she is the wife of Heinrich - NOT Georg.
Consider the evidence:
In 1928 Pastor Wagner drew 2 charts of the Conrad family..
Chart #1 lists 3 children for Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria Von Ludwig - #1 Anna Maria born 1627 and #2 Georg who dies in 1641 and #3 Burkhardt who dies in 1679.(This is not the same Burkhardt identified as the father or grandfather of Lorentz Conrad born 1701). He also lists a different Georg with just two children, Lorentz born in 1616 and Burkhard born in 1618. It is this Burkhard who appears at the top of Chart #2.
Chart #2 traces the Foreign Protestant Lorentz Conrad back to his grandfather Burkhardt Conrad who he states was born in 1618 and these 3 generations seem to be rather well documented. It is Burkhardt’s ancestry that is in question. Wagner states that Burkhardt’s father’s name was listed as Georg on his 1652 marriage and that another man Lorentz Conrad born in 1616 also listed his father as Georg at his 1641 marriage. Wagner concludes they are brothers and draws them on chart #1 as such.
While not 100% conclusive chances are this is a correct assumption. But the ancestry hits a brick wall here and stops with Georg. Georg Conrad then is the earliest traceable ancestor! Not Matthias. Georg's wife is not listed so it would appear that her name has been lost to history.
It had been falsely assumed by me and others in 1988 that Hans Heinrich was Georg’s father; that the Georg the father of Burkhardt and the Georg son of Hans Heinrich were the same Georg.
Hans Heinrich’s name deceptively appears above Georg on chart #1 (father of Lorentz & Burkhardt) giving the appearance that he was the father of Georg to anyone who gives the chart a casual glance.
However there is actually no link between Burkhard’s father Georg or any earlier ancestor. When translated from German to English Wagner himself confirms this, citing that no relationship between Hans Heinrich and Georg can be proven! I agree. This means there are 2 Georg Conrads – 3 if you count Burkhardt’s son Georg. So GEORG Conrad born probably during the late 1580's or early 1590's is the earliest known ancestor in an unbroken line that can be proven.
At her death in 1646 Anna Maria Von Ludwig Conrad the wife of Hans Heinrich was said to be 52 years of age placing her birth in about 1594.
The daughter of Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria Ludwig, named Anna Maria, was born in 1627. She later marries Burkhard Wein. (My book says she was the daughter of Georg – this is incorrect and the change should be noted in people’s genealogies.) One Johann Daniel Conrad born in 1633 is also said to be Heinrich’s son and modern day Germans can trace their ancestry back to Hans Heinrich & Anna Maria Von Ludwig through both Anna Maria the wife of Burkhardt Wein and Johann Daniel Conrad.
The only way then that it is possible for Lorentz Conrad born Nov 30, 1701 to be a direct descendant of Anna Maria Von Ludwig is if she were Burkhard Conrad’s (1618) paternal grandmother since we have established that she certainly was not his mother (Georg’s wife) – she was Heinrich’s wife.
If we concede that Lorentz (1616) & Burkhardt’s (1618) father Georg Conrad was a mere 16 years of age when Lorentz was born which is a very conservative estimate it places his birth in 1600 when Anna Maria Von Ludwig was just 6 years old. Conclusion? She could not have been the grandmother of Burkhardt Conrad (1618). It is biologically impossible.
There is simply not enough time – just 24 years between 1594 and 1618 for her to be his paternal grandmother. (22 years between Lorentz & Von Ludwig) As if that were not enough nails in the coffin on this issue let me add another - This would also suppose that she was having children over a span of 33 years between about 1600 as the most conservative estimate until 1633 when Johann Daniel is born - another improbability – with seemingly no children born between the years c. 1600 to 1627.
Thus we can convincingly declare that Anna Maria Von Ludwig IS NOT and cannot be the ancestor of the Lunenburg County Conrad’s. And all the members of the Von Ludwig family who were tried for witchcraft are not related whatsoever to us either. Anna Maria Von Ludwig was perhaps related by marriage but that cannot even be positively established.
Nevertheless if the evidence is critically examined the Lunenburg Conrads and their descendants of which I am one are not and cannot be the descendants of Anna Maria Von Ludwig. That distinction rests with the German branch of this family.
Scott W. Teal
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paulmwrose
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- Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:10 am
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
Any idea when Borden's newspaper article appeared and what newpaper it appeared in? I would like to look it up the next time I am in the archives.
Paul Rose
Paul Rose
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
The year I am reasonably sure was 1982 and the newspaper may have been The Liverpool Advance.
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paulmwrose
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:10 am
-
paulmwrose
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:10 am
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
One further question, Scott. The statement that Anna Maria Ludwig was 52 at her death in 1646 does not sound like an estimate. Is it part of her death record?
Paul Rose
Paul Rose
-
paulmwrose
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:10 am
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
I notice Heidi Banse in Germany also seems confident in the 1594 date
4077. Anna Maria LUDWIG wurde ungefähr 1594 in Kleinheubach,Miltenberg,Bayern,Deutschland geboren. Sie starb am 25. Dezember 1646 in Miltenberg,Miltenberg,Bayern,Deutschland. Sie wurde am 27. Dezember 1646 in Miltenberg,Miltenberg,Bayern,Deutschland bestattet. [Eltern]
http://www.genealogy.net/privat/h.banse ... 4.htm#5558
4077. Anna Maria LUDWIG wurde ungefähr 1594 in Kleinheubach,Miltenberg,Bayern,Deutschland geboren. Sie starb am 25. Dezember 1646 in Miltenberg,Miltenberg,Bayern,Deutschland. Sie wurde am 27. Dezember 1646 in Miltenberg,Miltenberg,Bayern,Deutschland bestattet. [Eltern]
http://www.genealogy.net/privat/h.banse ... 4.htm#5558
Re: ANCIENT CONRAD ANCESTORS in GERMANY
Not sure if this is any help concerning who Anna Marie VonLudwig was married to.
I am a desent from the George branch and from Lawrence that moved to Lunenburg and on to Chezzetcook.
Scott??. I very much enjoyed the 4 Conrad books.Especially the jonnan George book.(my branch).
I purchased 3 set's of 4 from you in N.S. when I was there on vacation..Maybe 10 year's ago. Best money I ever spent.
Here is another twist to the puzzle who Anna Marie was married to.
http://www.seawhy.com/ahn1040.html
http://www.seawhy.com/ahn2080.html
According to this...anna maria von Ludwig and Heinrich were grandparents of Buckhart born 1670. His father Buckhart (senior) was born 1618.
http://www.seawhy.com/ahn520.html
Rather this is right, I came down through Buckhart, and eventually down through Lawrence.
But...I will leave the project to you expert's on genealogy.
K. Conrad.
I am a desent from the George branch and from Lawrence that moved to Lunenburg and on to Chezzetcook.
Scott??. I very much enjoyed the 4 Conrad books.Especially the jonnan George book.(my branch).
I purchased 3 set's of 4 from you in N.S. when I was there on vacation..Maybe 10 year's ago. Best money I ever spent.
Here is another twist to the puzzle who Anna Marie was married to.
http://www.seawhy.com/ahn1040.html
http://www.seawhy.com/ahn2080.html
According to this...anna maria von Ludwig and Heinrich were grandparents of Buckhart born 1670. His father Buckhart (senior) was born 1618.
http://www.seawhy.com/ahn520.html
Rather this is right, I came down through Buckhart, and eventually down through Lawrence.
But...I will leave the project to you expert's on genealogy.
K. Conrad.
Last edited by reader on Tue Jul 07, 2015 1:07 am, edited 4 times in total.