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PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

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Jlwiebe94
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:24 am

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by Jlwiebe94 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:38 pm

I'm only five chapters in so far but I just wanted to tell you Mapmaker is fantastic! I’m very much enjoying reading it.

bhmitchell
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:59 pm

Hello Jlwiebe--thank you very much! I am so glad you are enjoying it.
Barbara

gnstill
Site Admin
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by gnstill » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:43 pm

Hi Barbara. I’ve been reviewing your ancestry relative to the LOUTIT families. Back on Jul 17, 2012 you indicated your connection as follows: From Philip TURNOR to Joseph TURNER Sr to Charlotte (b: 6 Dec 1827 at Moose Factory; married James Harper 1844 at Marten's Falls) to Nancy Ann Harper (b: 19 July 1845 at St. Andrew's; married John Low Loutit 1867).
The 1867 birth date of 1867 for John Lowe LOUTIT (who married Nancy HARPER) appears to be in error. This was John Lowe LOUTIT (1841-1925). This becomes obvious when we note that Nancy HARPER was born in 1845 (27 years before the 1867 birth-date for JLL.
Check this out:
JOHN LOWE LOUTIT (1841-1925)
My guess is that your ancestral connection is his one of his children. Either Peter Robert LOUTIT (1878-1961) who married Margaretta REEKIE, or Mary Isabella LOUTIT who married William Vincent GOFF at this link:
WILLIAM VINCENT BERNARD GOFF (1872-1940)

bhmitchell
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:20 pm

Hello Gnstill,
Here is what I now have for dates:
Charlotte Turner: born 11 July 1828 or 1829. I have these two birth years from a scrip document and from copy of a Bible register respectively. The other date (6 Dec 1827) was given me by my uncle and I do not know where he got that but I think it is less reliable than the other two.
Charlotte and James were married at Marten Falls on 21 June 1841 and at St Andrew's Parish 17 Oct 1844.
Nancy Ann Harper's birth date is as you mention. John Low Loutit was born 18 June 1841 at Rocky Mountain House. They married 11 April 1867 at St Andrew's Parish. If I gave you a birthdate for John Low as 1867 I must have inadvertently transposed the birth date and marriage date as the above birth date of 1841 is what I have in all my research.
My grandmother is their child, Mary Isabella Loutit, born 4 December 1881.

I hope this helps.

BTW I imagine you have seen my note that I have just published a biography of Philip Turnor. In it on page 4 is a short genealogical chart. I discovered that Philip was christened 26 Nov 1752 at St Mary's Battersea and that he died 1 March 1800 in Clerkenwell, London.

kprimorac
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by kprimorac » Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:57 pm

Barbara Mitchell, I bought your book and it's very fascinating so far. I was wondering if I could contact you via email. I'm working on the full genealogy, and have quite alot of information gathered, but am missing alot still. I'd love to email you the document I've been working on and see if we can fill in some of the missing gaps in Philip Turnor's ancestry. I've been working on this for 2 years now.

I have a question regarding Philip Turnor's parents. Without concrete proof, most of my research has said they were George & Phillis Turnor, but you (and somebody else on this site) say it's John & Betty Turnor. I'd love to know if you have a copy of your source for that information? I've had very little luck in finding anything out about Philip's ancestors.

I am a descendant of Philip's via this chain:
Philip & Elizabeth (Wapisk) Turnor
Joseph & Emma (Good) Turner
Philip & Jane (Bolland) Turner
Joseph Alexander & Jane (Whitford) Turner
Archibald & Lenore (Gauthier) Turner
Marcel Frederick & Freelove Frances (Rockwell) Turner
Heather Judy (Turner) & Stanko Primorac

You may be interested to know that I've been working with a genealogist, who also happens to be a descendant of Philiip AND of John Turner (Chief White Bear). He has sent me quite a lot of information so far to aid in my research, although I'm still sorting through it all!

:D

Kerri

bhmitchell
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:36 am

Hello Kerri,
I am pleased that you are enjoying my book.
Regarding your genealogy: likely my family history separates from yours at the grandchild generation from Philip Turnor, so I rather doubt that I can be of help with your family tree.

I'll answer a few of your questions here:

Re Philip's parents--Betty is mentioned in the correspondence as his mother and when I discovered Philip's christening record I was searching for the mother's name Betty and came across Betty and John. So I think that is accurate. You can check my footnotes for both Philip's christening record and mentions of Betty.
Re Philip's Cree wife: I have no information of her name. Elizabeth Hallett is the name of his English wife and you can check my biography for footnotes of the marriage banns and marriage record.
Re Joseph's wife: on a scrip signed by Charlotte we have her mother's name as Emma but no family name is given. I do not think it can be "Good" because the one HBC servant called Good did not enter the HBC service until 1796 (I think it was--you can check HBC biographical sheets).

At the next generation I come from Charlotte Turner's line and you come from Philip's. She was born either 11 July 1829 as on a Register of Births or on 11 July 1828 as on her scrip (so I put both dates on my genealogical chart in the book). I have 'your' Philip born on 14 Dec 1812 as indicated on the "Register of Birth" (in a family Bible) that I received from two descendants.

I have no evidence that Philip and John are brothers. As far as I can see they almost always spell their names differently, Philip never mentions him as a brother, and they do not come from the same location in England. So it would take some hard evidence to convince me that they are brothers.

All this said here is my email: bhmitchell@cogeco.ca. If you have any relevant material in your genealogy on Joseph and Emma's children I would be interested in receiving that, but I am sorry to say that I cannot deal with descendants of 'your' Philip right now as there is so much going on with my book. I do appreciate your writing and hope you will pass along any relevant material about Philip and his Cree wife. Good luck with all your pursuits!

Sincerely,
Barbara Mitchell

kprimorac
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by kprimorac » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:13 am

Thanks Barbara!

I just found an ancestry match regarding Elizabeth (Philip's native wife) - I'm going to try to follow that lead, because it's very interesting that this person seems to have more info on Elizabeth Wapisk than we have. He states that her parents were actually Thomas Hallet & Catherine Turnor. I found info about Henry Hallet (who is listed as Elizabeth's brother on this smart match), and his parents were Thomas Hallet & Catherine Turnois from England. So that would tie the 2 Elizabeth's being the same person...

I'll let you know if I achieve contact with this person!

Kerri

bhmitchell
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:07 pm

Hello again Kerri,
I'll just tell you a few things I have info regarding Elizabeth Hallett, Turnor's English wife. She was born to Thomas and Elizabeth Hallett on March 7, 1752 in Battersea, England. You will find something about Henry Hallett in my biography. He was the nephew of Elizabeth, and Turnor helped get him a job with the HBC in 1793. I have that he was born April 1773 in Battersea to Thomas and Catherine Hallett.

I hope that clears up some things for you,
Barbara

kprimorac
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:31 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by kprimorac » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:54 pm

Barbara,

That's what my research has shown as well, but there was an Ancestry match that came up for me today, that shows a match to my Elizabeth Wapisk, same birth/death info that I have, but says her parents were Thomas Hallet & Catherine Turnor, and that she had 9 siblings: John, Ann, William, James, Henry, Sophia, Alice, Catherine & Harriet. I'm trying to get in touch with the person who put this data into the ancestry site to see where he got his information from. Maybe he found something we didn't. Or maybe he was just guessing or misinterpreted the information that I had already found. If you're on MyHeritage or Ancestry.com, he was listed as Ronald Benedix.

I'll email you the document, I've been working on. It has as much as information as I've gathered to date, but is nowhere near a complete document. It's mainly just stats - names, birth/death dates & places, marriages, occupations, etc. starting with Philip Turnor and working on down to the youngest infant just born last Thursday. I focused on my direct lineage, but once I had all that I could find on that, I branched out on anything that I could find extra information on.

Kerri

bhmitchell
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:40 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:06 am

Thank you Kerri. I have not come across the name Ronald Benedix in my research. But, I agree, you need to be open to possibilities. Send me any material that you think is relevant to Philip Turnor.
Barbara

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