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WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

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MIEGUNYAH
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by MIEGUNYAH » Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:02 pm

Gary, The Manitoba Legislative Library hold the Census Index and only a few entries are given without cost. Hudson Bay Archives hold the originals. As each member of the family is a separate entry, it's difficult to record here. I have requested the originals from the HBC Archives, but I'm not expecting any additional revelations, Cheers Pam

jlmorss
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by jlmorss » Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:58 pm

Hello! You had inquired as to other descendants of White Bear and his wife.

I'm a descendant of White Bear's daughter, Mary, who married William Tate/Tait.

Mary Bear and William Tate had a daughter, Matilda (my third gg), who married James Irwin, a first waterman of Red River.

Matilda Tate and James Irwin's daughter Mary Jane Irwin (my second gg) married James Rickards and passed in Winnipeg. She died before my grandfather was born, but his older sibilings confirm that she was of a mixed Native American descent.

Mary Jane Irwin and James Rickards' daughter Mary Ellen Rickards (my great grandma) reflected her Native American roots in her complexion and features. Mary Ellen married George Foster and my grandpa Roy Foster was born in that union (although my grandpa claimed that it was family knowledge that his dad was not George Foster, but a full-blooded Native American from the Red River Settlement, evidenced by George being away in WWI during the conception and by my grandpa's significantly darker complexion and stronger native features over his more Anglo-looking siblings.)

If interested, I can give you dates, places, citations, etc.

Thanks for your research and effort in this site!
Jen

gnstill
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by gnstill » Sun Sep 30, 2012 12:29 pm

Welcome to the Forum Jen!

I’m happy to be able to say that your information matches very well with what I have; right down to the RICKARD – FOSTER families. I have quite a bit of information about them too.

George FOSTER enlisted in 1914 and it appears he was back at home in 1916 according the census that year as follows:
In the 1916 Census George FOSTER was enumerated on 979 Ashburn St in Winnipeg as follows: George FOSTER, Carpenter; age 38 (born c1878 in England; immigrated 1904); wife Mary, age 33. Children: Florence (age 10), Mary (8), George (7) Gracie (5), Albert (3) and Doris I (age 2). Father-in-law: James RICKARDS, widowed; age 70 (born 1846 in England; immigrated 1849).

As you see, there is no mention of a son Roy. When do you have Roy FOSTER born?
Regards
Gary

jlmorss
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by jlmorss » Sun Sep 30, 2012 3:22 pm

Hello!

After Dorie (Doris) was born in 1914, there was a five-year gap between kids.

My grandpa Roy was born May 25, 1919 in Winnipeg and passed away January 28, 2000. I guess that would make the claim of George being in WWI not correct; however, the infidelity part is still very likely. Due to Canada's 100-year rule for getting birth certificates, I cannot obtain any proof, though it might not give any indication anyway. My grandpa said that George Foster did raise him like a son, though the family knew he was only a half-sibling.

After my grandpa Roy, George and Mary had another son, William Foster in 1921 (who passed in 1999). I swear I heard of another brother named John, who was around Grandpa's age, but I cannot find any record of him, even in family obits.

I'm trying to get more pictures from my uncle, who has a bunch, but I'm not sure if there are any of Mary Ellen Rickards Foster or Mary Jane Irwin Rickards. I'm told that my grandpa is a carbon copy of his mom, Mary Ellen.

Hope this helps a bit! Please feel free to ask me any other questions and I'll try to respond!

Jen

gnstill
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by gnstill » Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:22 pm

Thanks very much Jen; much appreciated.
Gary

MIEGUNYAH
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by MIEGUNYAH » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:29 pm

Further to my post on 12th September about the family of WHITE BEAR, I'm going to throw a spanner in the works. I have been in touch with a descendant of Hannah Turner who married Thomas Umphreville/Humphreyville, son of Edward Umfreville about 1805. He believes, from a reliable source, that Hannah Turner is the daughter of JOHN TURNER, sloop master, HBC and not the daughter of Philip Turnor as was thought. Hannah had a brother John Turner. Hannah Turner and Thomas Umfreville (aka Humpherville, Humphryville) had children Catherine (5 Oct 1805-18 Sep 1886) m. Pierre Chrysologue Pambrun; Thomas Jnr (b c1810-15) m Charlotte, a Cree Metis; Mary (Polly) born Jul 1817 m (I think Ballenden/Ballentyne, then Joseph Archibald McLennan; John born 1820 at The Pas, m. Mary Brass, and died 10 Nov 1883 at Pahonan later Glen Mary Township, in Saskatchewan; and Sarah born 1822 at The Pas who m. Joseph Turnor at Cumberland House 1 Apr 1838 and who died on 15 Jul 1882 at Prince Albert Saskatchewan.

We had thought David Bear (born 1807 Fox Lake) was son of White Bear but there was always a possibility that he was the son of Wiskenepow (Scrip) who is believed to be a son of Edward Umfreville. This David Bear was known as Bear but on his Scrip a Sarah Turner declares he is the brother of her father FRANCIS TURNER but brought up by his uncle, THOMAS BEAR. This has thrown my suppositions about the ancestors of Wapusk aka White Bear into disarray. Oh, how the plot thickens! Is there anyone who can throw some light on my Wapusk aka White Bear's parents and siblings? Anything at all about White Bear, his children and family. Hoping someone can help, Pam

MIEGUNYAH
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by MIEGUNYAH » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:55 am

Gary, Do you have any history of John Turner, the sloop master? There is little information on the HBC sheet for him. Thank you again, Pam

gnstill
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by gnstill » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:02 am

I too have no other information regarding the John TURNER on that HBC sheet, other than what I have shown on the PHILIP TURNOR Page. All I know is that he was a sloop master in the York district for a few years; said to be Philip's brother, and that it is very unlikely that he, as a seaman ever travelled inland as did his brother Philip.

MIEGUNYAH
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by MIEGUNYAH » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:41 pm

Thank you Gary, Pam

MIEGUNYAH
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Re: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER (1780-1844)

Post by MIEGUNYAH » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:18 am

Some time ago Cathy sent some data about the family of John James Bear who married Maria Flett. This was in relation to James Alfed McLennand and Mary Elizabeth Bear. Would you be kind enough to detail this on line as I'm still trying to piece the early Bear family together. Who are the parents of John James Bear (1856-1888), Many thanks Pam

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