JEAN BAPTISTE SPENCE (1812-1889)

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New Family Page: JEAN BAPTISTE SPENCE (1812-1889)

Please post comments and queries about this Jean Baptiste SPENCE family here.

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Hello Gary

I was just reading on this and I found this comment On July 21, 1884 the Sandy Bay Reserve had its very first elections. Mr. Francois DEMARAIS wins and is the first elected Chief. Baptiste SPENCE (the Elder) and Wah-sah-hook (WICHEWASK – Jean Baptiste SPENCE JR) win for the councilor positions and are the first councilors.

Do you think Demarais is Francois JR who was married to Harriet SPENCE?

Small Community

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Francois DESMARAIS b-1804 married Harriet SPENCE. That Francois was the son of Lizette (Indian) and Francois DESMARAIS SR (1770-1849), a French Canadian from Quebec.

I’m still reviewing my files regarding the Francois DESMARAIS who was elected chief of the Sandy Bay First Nation in 1884. It seems at first glance that this may be the Francois DESMARAIS who married Ellen DESJARLAIS and was recorded in the Westbourne area in 1901, and he might have been a son of Francois born 1804 (above). I’m still reviewing that possibility.

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New Family Page: JEAN BAPTISTE SPENCE (1812-1889)

Please post comments and queries about this Jean Baptiste SPENCE family here.

Hello Gary,
My name is Ed Spence and I am the grgr grandson of Jean Baptiste Spence, my grandfather was Andrew Spence who was born at Sandy Bay in 1884 to John Spence and Madeleine Wesawok Lacouette. I have been reading your posts regarding Jean Baptiste and would like to add a few things. Jean Baptiste was born in 1807 to an Orkney man and a swampy cree woman. There has been a great deal of mystery and confusion regarding his actual origins. I have been researching him since 1990 and I have a theory I would like to share with you. I have reason to believe that he is the son of Joseph Spence, a HBC servant in service from 1790 to 1823. He was posted at many inland posts during this time, confirmed from his HBC biographical sheet. I have also read his journals when he was "in charge or an assistant trader" during this time. He had a companion during this time that he had 5 children with. And although he doesn't name them he does makes reference to them in his journals over the years. In 1811 he recounts in his journal that he is enroute to Churchill York Factory to sail home on the Eddystone on leave. On his journey he encounters a band of northern Indians that he leaves his wife and 2 of his youngest children with (Jean Baptiste and an unknown child). On arriving at the fort with 3 of his children he sails for home accompanied only by a son and a daughter. When he returns in 1812 his children are not with him, but are again made reference to after 1813. Apparently they were left in Scotland to receive some schooling. I believe that these 2 children were John Clarke Spence and Sapphira (Sophia) Spence. I have reason to believe that his eldest child was left at the fort and I have reason to think that this is Susan Spence who was likely in her teenage years and marries Alexander Stewart, who was also a NWC/HBC man and who was Chief Factor at several posts and where Susan died in Montreal in 1830 only a few months after being removed from her native environment. Likely a factor that she is not mentioned or reunited with her family. She and Alexander had 5 children who were all baptised Anglican between 1823 and 1828, a son named Jean Baptiste and also a grandson with that name. At this point upon Josephs return in 1812 it is unclear if he has abandoned his country wife or if she is the Sally Jefferson that he marries in 1823 and has another daughter, Crawford, who is baptised in 1823. John Clarke Spence is also baptised in 1823 Jean Baptiste was baptised in 1831 as was Marguerite Matwewinin Roulette and likely received his name at that time. (I don't believe that he was previously married) If he had been abandoned in 1811 it would also certainly explain the theory that he wasn't reunited with his father upon his return in 1812 and likely lived with his mothers people. The two other children are John Clarke Spence, who along with his cousin and 21 other families emigrated to Oregon Territory in 1841, and Sapphira (Sophia) marries John Clarke also a NWC/HBC man, about 1816 and she dies in 1821 In Montreal. Likely her brother was baptised John Clarke after him. I have further research to conduct within the HBC archives to hopefully confirm my theory, however, I strongly feel this is the correct family for Jean Baptiste. I too have been in touch with Ida but she has not responded to my emails or messages on FaceBook for over a year now so I think she may be ill or passed. When I last corresponded with her she intended to try and get up to Cumberland House, however, Joseph's journals did not reveal anything and that is where I need to dig deeper for birth records, ships records etc at HBC. Tche-Tchit or Lond Tanit has been a name for the woman likely his mother and the home guard cree or northern cree most likely her people. I do have other facts that can be added to the family page if you are interested.

Kind regards,
Ed Spence

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Great to hear from you Ed!
Your theory about Jean Baptiste’s origins is a very interesting one indeed! Looks like a definite possibility. I would love to hear any other facts you may have about this family that I could add to his Page.

I have lots of information about most of the other families you mentioned as well, and if I can just find the time I will do a Family Page for Joseph SPENCE. I have been so busy developing these Family Pages lately that I have had to set priorities for my work. Follow me on Twitter to see my latest postings. More about my Priority List at this link:
SPECIAL FAMILY PAGES

P.S. I have mentioned you and added your theory to my narrative. Perhaps this will stimulate further discussions from other people in that regard.