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WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

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mdefeo
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by mdefeo » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:06 pm

I have added parents for william to my WikiTree. Can you update from there?

gnstill
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by gnstill » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:53 pm

I see that Mary - thanks. So I guess there isn’t really anything more to update on this Page. I already had them as William’s parents.

gnstill
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by gnstill » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:31 am

Barbara: Here’s a Page for your maternal grandparents:

JOHN GERROND (1888-1959)

GlengarryBarbara
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by GlengarryBarbara » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:28 am

Thank you Gary, for creating this page. As to your question regarding when my grandparents, John and Dora (Irvine) Gerrond, moved their family to Ontario, I only know it was in the mid to late 1930s. I wish I had asked my Mother, Olive Gerrond, more questions when she was still living, but ...
Nonetheless, I can tell you that my mother said she first went to high school in Toronto and as she was born in 1922, that would make the earliest date of their relocation approximately 1936. My grandfather found he could no longer adequately support his family in Saskatchewan during the years of the Great Depression, and he found work in road and highway construction in Ontario. Sometime before the war, they and some of their eight children moved closer to the Kingston Ontario area, and lived for a time near Rockport (the Thousand Islands area of the St. Lawrence River). After the war, John and Dora were able to buy a home in Kingston on North Alfred Street, a new war-time housing development, which is the home I remember visiting during my grandparents' lifetime. After their deaths in 1959, their daughter Elsie Mona and her husband, Robert Gordon Clarke, lived in the house for a about two more decades.
You had also asked if I knew when their daughter, Jessie Margaret Gerrond, married Olaf Jensen. I have not yet found that information but it had to be after 1923, when he emigrated from Norway, and before 1940. As Jessie was 25 years old in 1940, it was most likely in the mid to late 1930s, about the time John and Dora moved to Ontario with their younger children. Jessie and Olaf are listed in the Canada Voters Lists, 1935-1940 as living at 3254 Vanness Ave. Vancouver, British Columbia in the 1940 census. There is also a Mrs. Marie Jensen, widow listed at the same address, but I'm not sure who she might be, as my records indicate Olaf's mother, Jakobine Mariane (Kristendatter) Jensen, died in 1928.

gnstill
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by gnstill » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:56 pm

Thanks Barbara. To keep things organized I have copied your comments to this link:

FORUM DISCUSSING THE JOHN GERROND FAMILY

Please continue discussions about that family there. See my update and a question there also.

mdefeo
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Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:24 pm
Location: Nelson BC

Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by mdefeo » Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:33 am

I am convinced that William's wife died in 1895, instead of 1896. The reason I believe this is a letter written by the HBC in the summer of 1886 referring to the death of his wife, who apparently died in the winter. If we believe that her youngest son was born in Nov or Dec then it must have been in 1885.
https://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca ... illiam.pdf
This is complicated by the fact that Stanley Irvine, the youngest son, always give 1896 as his year of birth. Maybe he didn't know?

gnstill
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by gnstill » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:01 am

Regarding death of William’s wife Margaret: Her gravestone at Prince Albert indicates 1864-1896.
Regarding youngest son Stanley: His World War I Attestation record verifies his birthdate as Dec 11, 1896 at Fort Simpson. His mother (Margaret) died then, giving birth to him and his twin.
From the HBC Archive bio: Chipman wrote again on Jun 4, 1897: - - I beg to inform you that Mr. Wm IRVINE, who retired from the Service last year, after the death of his wife - -

mdefeo
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by mdefeo » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:37 pm

If Chipman wrote, in 1897, that William Irvine had retired last year, in 1896, then we must assume that his wife died before that. However, Stanley's birth date is supposedly Dec 11th. That is a pretty quick turn around for William to retire, move his kids down to the Halcro area, and already decide that he needs support. Plus the first letter was written in September of 1896. I do believe that the HBC records are correct and do not vary.
I know that Stanley's attestation says 1896, as do several census forms. I suggest that he didn't know the correct date. Alternatively, maybe he did not know the actual day of his birth - maybe it was in January instead of December, which would account for the year change. More likely he was a tiny child, being born a twin, and it was easier for all involved to just say that he was a year younger than he really was - that is, of course, pure conjecture, but it would not be the first time that happened.
In conclusion: A Sept 1896 letter refers to the death of Willliam's wife, so she cannot have died in December of 1896 as reported. What are your thoughts on this? My solution was that the year was altered, but I'd be happy to entertain other ideas. Maybe the HBC documents are incorrectly dated?

mdefeo
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Location: Nelson BC

Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by mdefeo » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:45 pm

Hi again - I don't know how to add a photo into this forum, so I will add a link to the 1901 census, which identifies Stanley's birth year as 1895. I forgot that I had that! https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/9/93 ... -506-3.jpg

Looking at this long list of children I am impressed that they all thrived!

gnstill
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Re: WILLIAM IRVINE (1843-1918)

Post by gnstill » Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:15 am

Regarding census 1901: I already have those details in the narrative. I often find errors in the census records – blame the census takers.
What more can I say regarding Stanley’s birthdate? Personally, I prefer to stick with what I have, rather than speculation.

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