Agnes Kennedy and Rachel Thomas re James/Jim Shand post

[Kennedy/Thomas]

I forgot to mention the reason why I referred to all those girls as Mary and to the line from Agnes as Winnie(s)is because the story is that all those girls who liked to go to Winnipeg-the big city-were called Winnie by the Indians in the family. There is another story about if my memory serves me accurately about Juliet or John George having an affair while they were separated during a rebellion or a war and there was a pregnancy as a result. The child was born and they split up. I can't remember everything perfectly anymore. I never thought any of this would be so important later in life. It might have been a Thomas who had Yvonne with my grandma before he went away to the fight in the war approx. 1940-1950 and when he came back it was over. Isabelle was with Deitrich Harder from then onward.

I'll try to fill in some of my profile and put some more info into the posts.

[Kennedy/Thomas]

Louis and Elizabeth Betsy Simard/Seymour
-Marr. 1884 at Fort Alexander
-Mining, Logging
-Louis French from Quebec
-Betsy a Cree Indian(Fisher River)

John George and Juliet Kennedy
-Marr. 1891 at St. Clements
-Both St. Peters Treaty Indians
-Juliet’s mother a Thomas
-Juliet sister/family to Rachel Thomas
-Thomas’s Swampy Cree Indian

Charles and Maggie married in 1910 in Peguis
Charles Simard/Seymour
-Born 1888
-Hunter/Trapper
-In Selkirk Unorganized Territory 1901 with mother and father; 1911 with Maggie
-Languages: French and Cree and English
Maggie Kennedy(Maggy)
-Born 1891 at St. Clements
-Midwifery
-Unknown if her parents were married in 1891 prior to birth of Agnes/Matilda Kennedy 1884/1894(Vital Stats)
Isabelle Simard/Seymour-daughter of Charles and Maggie
-Born 1921 on Gov’t Land
-Spoke French, English and some Cree
-Parents died when she was around 16 years old
-Siblings attended residential schools and/or died at young age
-Highland Fling dancer
-Moved to Winnipeg around 1937
-Sister Angeline Cruse also in Winnipeg


James and Rachel(Thomas) Shand
-Uncorroborated marriage
-James also married an Eleanor Mayo who was the daughter of Charles E. and Caroline Mayo
-Eleanor’s brothers/family ‘were’ Wallace and Joseph Mayo
-James Shand's children with Rachel Thomas: Raymond and Winnie
-Children with Eleanor Mayo: Caroline, George and James Jr.

‘Joe and Signa’ Mayo
-Joe apparently had a sister Cora
-apparently 2-4 children associated with the household in the North End of Winnipeg around 1960
-Raymond and Winnie Mayo thought to be 2nd-3rd cousins to Isabelle Simard/Seymour-Wallace and Agnes-Matilda Mayo’s children could be 1st cousins to Isabelle
-Nobody from Isabelle’s family remembers knowing any of the Kennedy’s or Thomas’s specifically
-Name Mayo is most recognized surname by Isabelle Simard/Seymour’s family as of '1960'-2012 in Winnipeg City

Agnes-Matilda Kennedy(1894) married Wallace Mayo(1895) in 1917 in Selkirk as per Vital Stats Agency of Manitoba website. Agnes-Matilda introduced her aunt Rachel Thomas's ex-husband James Shand to Eleanor Mayo at some unknown place and time; exact time and location and any witnesses to the courtship. There may have been up to four Mayo males who visited with Isabelle’s own family in the North End of Winnipeg around 1960. Mayo house males who would have been more known were probably James Shand, Wallace, Joe and a younger Mayo because there were children when Isabelle would visit. The Mayo’s reportedly looked Indian and were associated with Selkirk.

[gnstill]

This is all great information, but to avoid confusion I have created a new Topic to deal specifically with the Jim SHAND family and daughter Winnie.
Here's the Link (hope to hear from you there): JIM SHAND DISCUSSION FORUM

[Kennedy/Thomas]

I have a theory about the Kennedy ancestor links in Manitoba based on stories from people who knew members of a Kennedy family quite well. Isabelle Simard/Seymour’s Uncle Roderick(dob 1901) is one of the Kennedy’s associated with Hollow Water area to this day. Another Kennedy was Charles. Rod once belonged to the same household as Agnes/Matilda and Mary(Elizabeth) who’s parents were John George Kennedy(dob 1870) and Juliet Thomas(dob 1876). Charles Kennedy who belongs in the family tree could be someone other than a brother to Rod. Charles had a son named Aaron and two other children. Aaron is said to have a very large family of his own. Most of his children look Indian and fit the general description of a Kennedy. There is an attestation record for Alex Kennedy jr. the son of Alex Kennedy and Margaret Dennet at Selkirk in 1916 as well as some descriptive stories about a John George Kennedy, Alex Jr.’s brother. They are described as short and somewhat heavy with a dark complexion. I consider them to be part of the Salteaux Cree/Ojibway Indian ancestry line in my family tree.
Based on family stories a lady named [Mary(‘Elizabeth’) Kennedy married an Alec Wood. They had at least one son named Franklin Wood and 2 daughters named Vira and Jane. Jane Wood married a man named Mr. Little]. The Little’s were close to the Winnipeg Mayo’s in the North End. Mary’s household sister Agnes/Matilda Kennedy was married to Wallace Mayo. Joe Mayo, son of James Shand married a ‘Signa’ something. Joe’s sister Cora was with a man named Gus who was French. Ruth was with a Mr. Fraser and they had a daughter Sharon. There was also a Bruce. Addresses associated with the Mayo family around 1960’s were one on Selkirk Ave. and another one that sounded like Flora both in the North End. Agnes/Matilda and Mary Kennedy were either sisters, cousins or aunt and niece but I can’t say with absolute certainty which one unfortunately at this time.

Catherine Sinclair daughter of Peter Sinclair but raised by her uncle William Sinclair(1901 census) might have married Alex Kennedy Jr. to later be known as Old Aunty Katie(Cath) Kennedy to Isabelle Simard/Seymour and family. Katie belonged to the Sinclair family-got the name Sinclair from what I was told. There was another woman named Jane who picked up the surname Sinclair around this time as well, within a generation either way.

LAST NAME: SINCLAIR
FIRST NAME: CATHERINE ELIZABETH
DATE OF BIRTH: 03/02/1889
PLACE OF BIRTH: R.M. OF ST. ANDREWS SEX: FEMALE
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 1889,005290
REGISTRATION DATE:


The Little family apparently knew the Mayo family of Winnipeg’s North End also discussed in this forum-mentioned in the Kennedy/Thomas and James Shand topics. Catherine Kennedy having the name Sinclair before she married Alex Kennedy Jr. is one theory about the Kennedy/Sinclair link, however I do know she was called old aunty Katie by some of her younger Kennedy relatives. Isabelle Simard/Seymour’s family would have known her through the maternal line of Isabelle’s mother Maggie Kennedy. Katie(dob 1889), again in theory was the daughter or niece of Elizabeth Betsy Sinclair(dob 1868). There is a story about how one of our Kennedy relatives was related to the woman who helped raise judge Murray Sinclair. There was also a Laura and Gloria. Gloria married a Mr. ‘Bushie’. Gloria and Laura are deceased already. Mary Kennedy could be a first aunt to Isabelle and Catherine a second aunt.

[(Isabelle Simard/Seymour who was daughter of Maggie Kennedy who was daughter of John George Kennedy)-----(Isabelle’s aunt “Old Aunty Katie”, Cathleen or Catherine maybe spelled with a K elsewhere, Sinclair and another in-law Jane Sinclair-----Elizabeth Betsy Sinclair)].

The people in this theory are not fictitious and are real names of real people remembered by others who knew them personally or through close family relations so if the theory of how the family is connected is not a 100 percent accurate revisions shall be made after I talk to some more of the Kennedy’s.

I asked a niece of Isabelle Simard/Seymour who Elizabeth ‘Betsy’ Sinclair was and how she might be related to Isabelle’s family. I also advised the niece that nobody seems to know for sure who Elizabeth ‘Betsy’ Sinclair might be in relation to the extended Kennedy family. The niece advised that her mother and mother’s sister Isabelle Simard/Seymour had one aunt named Catherine known as “Old Aunt Katie” who was our closest link to the Sinclair’s.

[Kennedy/Thomas]

Are your findings on Rachel Thomas based on the same findings that would lead to Rachel's mother being Mary Ann Stevens(dob 1852) and Rachel's mother as Sarah McKenzie, a half-breed? I base it on an affidavit for William Thomas who stated he already got commutation and so just his wife needs scrip and they agree to give up any treaty status all in one shot in 1875. After that I think they lived in the bush. William lists his parents as John and Jane(Swampy Cree) Thomas. In a different scrip for Mary Ann Stevens she states her father is George Stevens and her mother a Sarah McKenzie. Some of the dates in the census of 1881 and 1891 have the Thomas's ages off the mark by a bit. However on William's paperwork his daughter Ann and Catherine are listed. Vital stats shows that a girl who might be his daughter died at 2 years old so she wouldn't be on the next census anyhow so it is still possible that the 1881 census is accurate showing only Juliet and Catherine as William and Mary Ann's children at that time. I still have no idea where Rachel is documented with the family. Would you agree that this is the family lineage going right back to Richard Stevens(dob 1796)? There was another child Flora Bella actually in addition to Catherine. Catherine who was under the next household(possibly same structure with separate door) as a child of Joseph and Bessie or Jessie could have been illegitimate and later given up for adoption since the father might have been unknown. Maybe it looked better to have a family when applying for a homestead. I don't know.

Since the Kennedy's mother was a Thomas ie Agnes's mother was Juliet Thomas it is likely she stayed with the same Thomas family in a later census the same way that Catherine is staying with the Thomas's in the 1881 census. Any thoughts?

[gnstill]

To discuss the STEVENS family, please go to the following topic:
RICHARD STEVENS (1796-1872)

I have posted a reply there.

[lina]

Well what i am interested in is my gramma Agnes Sinclair(nee kennedy) I think she was the daughter of Matilda Kennedy. She died when I was two weeks old so that was in 1967 She is buried in Fort Alexander in the Catholic Cemetary. But I cannot find her grave. My mom always talks about granny Matilda and how she was a midwife in manigotogan and surrounding areas. My Grammas brother was Charlie Kennedy. My mom has a case of alzimers now and cannot remember much I am also a simard my grampa was Louis and my dad is Louis the 3rd I had a brother whom was Louie the 4th. We grew up in manigotogan and surrounding areas. I just want to know how I can find grammas grave???