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JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:39 pm
by bthor
Hi Gary,
I was wondering what sources you used to find the name of John Peter Pruden’s daughter who married John Edward “Ted” Harriot? For the longest time I believed that the Hudson’s Bay Bio Sheet for her son-in-law John Rowand Jr. was accurate. I now believe it is wrong. Her daughter, Margaret “Peggy” Harriot (Donaldson) claimed in her scrip affidavit that her parent’s names are John E Harriot and Elizabeth Pruden.

Scrip affidavit for Donaldson, Margaret; born: 5 June 1831; father: John E. Harriot; mother: Elizabeth Pruden; claim no.: 2865; scrip no.: 12296; date of issue: Sept. 5, 1878 =
19uu. File.
RG15-D-II-8-a.

Beth

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:06 am
by gnstill
Family Page: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Beth: It’s been a while since I worked on that page, but I believe I got that information from the book ‘John Rowand, Czar of the Prairies’ by J.G. MacGregor.

There is also some information in that regard in the book Tender Ties by Sylvia Van Kirk

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:02 pm
by bthor
Hi Gary
This is what I have found so far:

1)Wikipedia for John Edward Harriott – First wife Elizabeth.
2)Wikipedia for John Peter Pruden – “Children: Elizabeth . . .” - with no mention of a daughter named Margaret.
3)Dictionary of Canadian Biography- Harriott, John Edward – First wife Elizabeth.
4)Sylvia Van Kirk’s Many Tender Ties online preview (a good read). She also calls J E Harriott’s spouse Elizabeth Pruden.
5)Scrip Affidavit for daughter Margaret (nee Harriot) Rowland-Donaldson - mother’s name Elizabeth.

So far, the only place that has “Margaret Ann” is the Hudson’s Bay Archives Bio Sheet for John Rowand Jr. (1812-1865).
Beth

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 6:56 am
by gnstill
Beth: You have posed a good and interesting question; a puzzle that needs to be solved. I have done a quick review of my own notes regarding Elizabeth and/or Margaret PRUDEN and John Edward HARRIOTT. I too was confused and puzzled by the seemingly conflicting information from these various sources.

Following are some excerpts from the aforementioned book, Czar of the Prairies that should be of interest:

Czar pg 83: In the fall of 1828 HARRIOTT, who after taking the leather west, had been stationed at Stuart Lake. There it struck his half-breed wife, Margaret PRUDEN. On Jan 20, 1829, WACCAN, one of the natives employed by the Company, brought a message to Chief Factor CONNOLLY to the effect that “HARRIOTT’s wife whom he had left at Alexandria was raging mad; I had to allow him to go for her with two Man to assist him - - “

Czar pg 89-90: About this time (referring to November of 1929) Chief Trader HARRIOTT’s wife Margaret, daughter of John Peter PRUDEN, gave birth to a daughter who was named after her mother. When, a few weeks later, he and his family set out for York Factory, Mrs HARRIOTT’s illness apparently struck again. While their movements were hard to follow, it appears that his party was on its way east over the Athabasca Pass. Along the way his wife simply disappeared from the brigade, having wandered off accidentally or deliberately. Although the party stopped and searched, no one could find any trace of her. From there on, the sorrowing party managed somehow to keep her baby girl alive as far as Edmonton House where, until she could be sent to live with her grandfather at Fort Carlton, Louise ROWAND cared for her.

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:13 pm
by bthor
Gary: I have not read Czar of the Prairies’ by J.G. MacGregor yet. Did he happen to list his sources of information? The book was published back in 1978 before information was posted by the Canadian government on the internet. Beth

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:42 am
by gnstill
McGregor lists 21 different references in that particular chapter including HBC Archives, Simpson Journals and various other HBC post journals, the Beaver magaziine, etc. The book is full of interesting details about the fur trade during the life of John Rowand; you should get it.

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:16 pm
by bthor
Hi Gary
I just got back from the Manitoba Archives and this is was I found.
1) John Peter Pruden's first will (dated 1824) listing all his children
2) Margaret Harriott batizism listing her parents as John Edward Harriott and Elizabeth Pruden.
I am sending you copies of the originals.
There is a list of all the older Prudens that were baptized by Wm Cochran and D Jones 1825-7, but unfortunetly Elizabeth was already married and living in Edmonton with John Edward Harriott by that time.(ref. Edmonton journal Sept. 14 1826)
Beth

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 5:15 pm
by gnstill
Thanks very much Beth!

Further supporting your evidence, there is also an 1878 Scrip affidavit identifying Margaret DONALDSON of Winnipeg; born Jun 5, 1831 in NWT, daughter of Elizabeth PRUDEN & John E HARRIOT.

Nevertheless, there are still some missing pieces in this puzzle. Did you get a chance to read Czar of the Prairies? Although the details are rather fuzzy regarding dates and names, the story presented there is too compelling to ignore. I have a few ideas, but I’m so busy these days with other inquiries, I’m going to have to put all this on the back-burner for a while.

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 10:48 pm
by bthor
Gary
I have not read the book yet but I did come across something that was interesting to read called Edmonton In Our Own Words Linda Goyette, Linda Goyette Carolina Jakeway Roemmich

I found page 33 and 34 about Paul Kane very informative. This information has taught me, unless I see documentation to look “a little outside the box.” Otherwise all I see is a VERY GOOD STORY.

As for Elizabeth and/or Margaret, I would love to prove her name is Margaret, but all I found in the search files, was correspondents from “family members” saying this person was named Margaret . There is also other correspondents on the internet from a “family expert” claiming this daughter is called Margaret and HER daughter was named Elizabeth. All the HB company journals refer to her as either “wife of J E Harriott” or “Mess Harriott”.
I am very curious to see what the Hudson’s Bay Company Archives have to say about this question.

I love a Good Puzzle. If you have any other good ideas, I don’t mind trying to help.
Beth

Re: JOHN PETER PRUDEN (1778-1868)

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:53 am
by gnstill
Regarding the HBC Archives, here’s one for you that indicates John ROWAND’s wife as Margaret Ann PRUDEN: HBCA BIO for JOHN ROWAND JR