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PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

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gnstill
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PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by gnstill » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:13 pm

New Family Page: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Please post queries and comments about this family hereunder.

bhmitchell
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:19 am

I am new to this and am not quite sure how it works.

I have just read the item on Philip Turnor who is an ancestor of mine. I am writing a biography of him and have questions about some of the information on this site. I have never heard before of the Ojibwe wife of 1779 and the child, John Turner, (or White Bear). I would like to find out more about this. I wonder if, in fact, it is a child of John Turner who was a sloop captain (and thought to be Philip's brother by J.B. Tyrrell although I do not think that is so). Also I am VERY INTERESTED to find out where the quotation was found where Turnor said that he would get home to see his wife and child. I have read the Brunswick House Journal and did not see that. Can someone verify where that came from as it is of utmost importance to me.

Thank you.

gnstill
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by gnstill » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:53 am

Welcome to the Forum Barb!

I forgot to fnish the link regarding WHITE BEAR. Here it is: WHITE BEAR aka TURNER

Please post discussions and queries about him under that Topic (Link provided in his Family Page)

gnstill
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by gnstill » Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:11 pm

I must confess that I am not very good at organizing my references. It was some time ago that I first created the family page for Philip Turnor.

Upon reviewing my own notes in that regard, although I have lots of general references I can’t seem to find a specific source reference for that particular quote. It may have been from the J.B. Tyrell book that you mentioned. In attempting to re-find it by Google-searching, the only thing I could find so far is this Link: http://roohit.com/d9e63

Although that one appears to be a rather goofy demo for a highlighter, it does show some interesting quotes, including the one I used. Unfortunately, it too doesn’t provide a source reference.

bhmitchell
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:16 pm

Hello gnstill,
Thank you for responding. I am not sure how to answer the two responses separately so will do both together.
The quotation that you have used from "Philip Turnor's Diary" seems to me to be from a fictive diary that was created by the people named at the end of the quotation on the roohit site. You can see their names there. So I doubt that it is authentic. Certainly the quotes preceding it are imaginary--perhaps a school student's project which, of course, is good in itself, but not factual!

Re White Bear: it is interesting that you have found a Turner/Turnor child born as early as 1780 because I have only Joseph (born about 1783) listed. The author of the White Bear site simply says that he was born to Philip because there were no other Turnors. But there was John Turner who was a sloop master between York and Severn House.

gnstill
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by gnstill » Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:17 am

Hi Barb
My name is Gary Still. I am the Forum moderator and the author of all of the pages on this website, including the family pages for both Philip TURNOR and WHITE BEAR. Go to the Home Page of this website for a full explanation. HOME PAGE

Regarding the TURNOR Diary and the roohit information: Whoever posted those notes obviously had access to a real source of some kind because most of it agrees with what I have. If you are really serious about finding their source, perhaps you could contact the person(s) who posted it. If you do, and you get answers, please let me know. I frequently update my family pages whenever new information surfaces and it is through responses from people like you that I am able to make corrections and improvements.

HBCA re John TURNER born c1782: Link: JOHN TURNER 1782
This fellow was a “Canoeman” born around 1782 (of unknown origins) who left the service of the HBC in the spring of 1804 and “went with the Indians.” In my mind, he seems like a very likely candidate as one of Philip’s children and I have even suggested the possibility that he may in fact be WHITE BEAR himself, who was also known as (aka) TURNER. At the start of the page I stress that this is just my opinion, and certainly anyone who wants to discount that contention can easily do so because there are no facts to support it. It is well known that information about such relationships between white traders and Indian women was kept closely guarded by HBC officials.

Regarding John TURNER, the Sloop Master, born around 1751 in England: HBCA Link: JOHN TURNER 1751
This fellow (said to be Philip’s brother) was at York Fort between 1778 and 1782, and there is no evidence that he ever travelled inland as a trader as did Philip.

You mentioned that you are a descendant of Philip TURNOR. That is very interesting, because I’m sure you must know a lot more about his family in England, information that I am lacking. Could you present a brief description of your own lineage? Am I correct in assuming you are also a descendant of the renowned Canadian author W.O. MITCHELL?
Gary

bhmitchell
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by bhmitchell » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:53 pm

Hello Gary,
Thank you for responding. I don't have anything to add at the moment. I continue to research Philip Turnor and am currently writing a biography on him. There certainly are missing parts to his story. I wish I had more information about his children.

Yes, I am related to W.O. Mitchell. I am his duaghter-in-law and, with my husband, we wrote a two volume biography of him.

Thanks,
Barbara

gnstill
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by gnstill » Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:07 pm

Barbara
Thanks very much for that.

After another review of all my TURNER files, I have found more information to add to my Family Page for Philip TURNOR. It will update that page with new information that I’m sure you will be interested in – might take me a day or so to finish it, so stay tuned.

In the meantime, it would be very helpful if you could give a brief description of your own lineage descending from Philip TURNOR (You mentioned that you are a descendant so I presume you have that).

I have lots of TURNER information in my files, particular with regard to the descendants of his son Joseph TURNER b-1785 who married a lady named Emma. It would make it much easier for me to help you if I have at least your lineage for extra clues.
Gary

barry
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Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by barry » Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:36 pm

Thank you for accepting my request to be a part of your web site.
I am related to Philip Turnor. I have been searching for my lineage to him, but like everyone else there is very little information about him prior to him coming to Canada and on his final return to England.
I have secured a book re: Philip Turnor's decendents. The book is called Across The River. The lady that wrote the book has passed on but I was able to get one of the last copies through the kindness of her daughter. The book has a great deal of information on the decendents right up to current times.
Barry....


gnstill wrote:Barbara
Thanks very much for that.

After another review of all my TURNER files, I have found more information to add to my Family Page for Philip TURNOR. It will update that page with new information that I’m sure you will be interested in – might take me a day or so to finish it, so stay tuned.

In the meantime, it would be very helpful if you could give a brief description of your own lineage descending from Philip TURNOR (You mentioned that you are a descendant so I presume you have that).

I have lots of TURNER information in my files, particular with regard to the descendants of his son Joseph TURNER b-1785 who married a lady named Emma. It would make it much easier for me to help you if I have at least your lineage for extra clues.
Gary

gnstill
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Posts: 2247
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:12 pm

Re: PHILIP TURNOR (1751-1799)

Post by gnstill » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:07 pm

Welcome to the Forum Barry!
When I indicated that I found more information to add to my Philip TURNOR Page, it is a surprising coincidence that the information I found in my files is from the exact same book (Across the River). I too have information from that book that I saved a long time ago. I will be updating my TURNOR Page in the next few days hopefully (I have been very busy handling other inquiries on my Forum lately). I will incorporate information from that book as soon as I can.

In the meantime, it would be a great help if you could tell us what you do know about your own lineage. I have a lot of information on TURNER descendants and can very likely help you in your quest too.
Regards, Gary

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